Moultrie Products
Electric bikes in national Forrest?
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
huntnfish808 05-Jan-19
hillbender 05-Jan-19
JohnMC 05-Jan-19
Native Okie 05-Jan-19
Trax 05-Jan-19
elkocd 05-Jan-19
ground hunter 05-Jan-19
WapitiBob 05-Jan-19
Jaquomo 05-Jan-19
Scar Finga 05-Jan-19
Aspen Ghost 05-Jan-19
cnelk 05-Jan-19
Jaquomo 05-Jan-19
cnelk 06-Jan-19
Buglmin 06-Jan-19
Jaquomo 06-Jan-19
swede 06-Jan-19
ground hunter 07-Jan-19
MyrlePeete 12-Mar-20
Huntcell 12-Mar-20
fubar racin 12-Mar-20
ground hunter 12-Mar-20
Jaquomo 12-Mar-20
WapitiBob 12-Mar-20
Huntcell 12-Mar-20
Scrappy 12-Mar-20
splitlimb13 12-Mar-20
Chasewild 12-Mar-20
splitlimb13 12-Mar-20
Jaquomo 12-Mar-20
ground hunter 12-Mar-20
Jaquomo 12-Mar-20
splitlimb13 12-Mar-20
ground hunter 12-Mar-20
Jaquomo 13-Mar-20
Mule Power 13-Mar-20
Chasewild 13-Mar-20
ground hunter 13-Mar-20
wkochevar 13-Mar-20
Jaquomo 13-Mar-20
Grey Ghost 13-Mar-20
splitlimb13 13-Mar-20
Jaquomo 13-Mar-20
Shuteye 13-Mar-20
Scrappy 13-Mar-20
Jaquomo 13-Mar-20
splitlimb13 13-Mar-20
Pig Doc 13-Mar-20
Scrappy 13-Mar-20
Jaquomo 13-Mar-20
Scrappy 13-Mar-20
splitlimb13 13-Mar-20
Jaquomo 13-Mar-20
Pig Doc 13-Mar-20
Grey Ghost 13-Mar-20
swede 14-Mar-20
easeup 14-Mar-20
eBike John 14-Mar-20
Outdoordan 14-Mar-20
Tonybear61 14-Mar-20
From: huntnfish808
05-Jan-19
Does anyone know if it's legal to use an electric bike in national Forrest during hunting season in Montana? What about BLM land (or is that the same as national Forrest?)? My hunch is that you can use them to ride trails during the year but they disallow access at a certain point in the year. Usually we just hike our asses off but those bikes look pretty sweet.

From: hillbender
05-Jan-19
they are allowed anywhere you can drive or take a four-wheeler in most Forests

From: JohnMC
05-Jan-19
From what I understand is you can use them anywhere you can use a regular bike on NF.

From: Native Okie
05-Jan-19
I think this is thread no.394 on the topic.

From: Trax
05-Jan-19
Go to the Montana thread.

Yes, you can use these bikes on roads where ATV's can go. You can not use them on gated trails where they've banned motorized vehicles. Word is also they are replacing the "no motorized" signs with "no mechanical". Which would ban bicycles of all types.

From: elkocd
05-Jan-19
"From what I understand is you can use them anywhere you can use a regular bike on NF." FALSE They are not allowed on non motorized trails and roads for both NF and BLM. It's easy to find the NF and BLM regulations on the web.

05-Jan-19
I was going to get one,,,,,, but I checked with the Forest Service, they told me straight out, if the road is gated, or bermed, the fine is 165.00 Now that is in Wis and the UP,,,,,,,,

From: WapitiBob
05-Jan-19
There is at least one Montana forest district that has recently posted their ebike policy on their web site. I would check with the specific district you plan to hunt.

From: Jaquomo
05-Jan-19
For now they are restricted to trails open to ATVs in NF and BLM. However, in some NFs they are running pilot programs on nonmotorized trails to measure the impact. The USFS Regional Trails Supervisor in my district told me he believes Class 1 and 2 assist bikes should be permitted wherever other pedal bikes are allowed (like the CO State law) but said the "wheels turn slowly" in DC. He also said he didn't know of any citations ever being issued for riding assist bikes on closed-gated roads or non-wilderness single track trails. Last summer I encountered 9 different USFS people while riding on gated roads. I was willing to risk $185 just to find out what they would do. Nobody ever said anything besides how cool they seemed, and one supervisor suggested other closed roads we should ride.

From: Scar Finga
05-Jan-19
Here we go again... Hold My Beer!

From: Aspen Ghost
05-Jan-19
They are legal anywhere that motorcycles are allowed. They are illegal anywhere motorcycles are not allowed. It's pretty simple really.

From: cnelk
05-Jan-19
And they go the same illegal places motorcycles and ATVs go.

Just quieter :)

From: Jaquomo
05-Jan-19
Brad, I get that and agree. That's why I didn't go anywhere I wasn't supposed to after the first couple test runs in early summer. There are plenty of great legal access trails around here.. ;)

From: cnelk
06-Jan-19
Lou, for sure.

But many people are missing that fact that there is plenty of illegal use of ATVs and motorcycles in NF. That part isnt new.

What's new on the scene is the Ebikes.

From: Buglmin
06-Jan-19
Down here, if you're behind a gated road with an ebike, you're gonna get in trouble. Because the roads here are gated till mid May and closed to motorized travel, the Rangers and Fish and Game watch very good for turkey season.

In Arizona, in the preserve in Scotsdale, they are illegal. Even though bikes are allowed on the trails, ebikes aren't. And those people down there turn you in in a heart beat. I thought of getting one last year cause of the four mile hike to get to glassing points. Checking into it, I found you couldn't use them.

From: Jaquomo
06-Jan-19
Where things got confusing here is when CO passed a law declaring Class 1 and 2 assist bikes as "not motorized" and legal to ride wherever regular bikes and hikers can go. They are allowed in State Parks, State Forest, County open space, State Trust wildlife areas, etc... Many of these legal areas are huge and overlap or adjoin with NF in places. I have yet to see a USFS sign on a gate or a printed trailhead regulation saying "No Ebikes", so there's a lot of confusion from people who believe they are legal per state law.

For example, in one big State Wildlife Area where we like to ride, the trails go in and out of NF with no signage delineating different ownership, so technically we can be legal, then hardened criminals, then law abiding citizens again as we pedal along the trail. No one from the USFS will tell me if we become legal by shutting off the assist and simply pedaling the bike through the NF part like a regular fat bike. I would like to get a ticket to test it, but nobody in our big Ranger District seems to care.

Here's another one: USFS sometimes erects gates or berms and closes vehicle entry to otherwise legal roads and trails that are accessible from elsewhere. The vehicle entry point may be 5 miles up the ATV trail from a different county road. So on one side of the gate, motor vehicles (and assist bikes) are legal. On the other side of the gate they are legal too. Hikers and conventional bikes can legally go around the gates or over the berms and ATV riders can come right up to the gate and turn around from the other side.

No one can tell me if we are legal by turning off and walking our assist bikes around the gate, or even removing the battery and simply pedaling our "regular bikes" around it, because the sign on the gate says "No Motor Vehicle Access". With no assist, it's just a bicycle. Yesterday on our 20 mile ride, the assist was off most of the time because we wanted a workout (and pedaling a 50 lb fat bike will sure give that...) So it was "motorized", then it wasn't, then it was again.

This is all evolving, and like the Regional USFS Supervisor believes, eventually the USFS will figure out that Class 1 (assist-only, no coasting throttle) are not a threat to the resource, not "motorcycles", and their policies for managing "assist bikes" vs. true "e-bikes" (Class 3) will evolve as well. CO and some other states just got ahead of the Feds on this issue.

From: swede
06-Jan-19
Here is my opinion. All road and trail closures are done by an order from a proper authority. Usually that is the Forest Supervisor on a National Forest. Gates and berms mean nothing if there is no legal order that goes with it. That often happens. Go to the Ranger Station and ask to see the list of legal road closures. You may be in for a big surprise. Signs are not where they are supposed to be, and some have been taken by some resourceful hunter and located where they want it. The crazy part is that many Forest Service employees don't know the legal status of a road, and will say just what they think. Drive any road that does not have a sign. Drive any road that has no legal closure order to go with a sign. Fire season could be an interesting situation. Often the closure applies to motorized vehicles with spark emitting engines. Since an E-bike does not have one, you should be able to use it where not legally prohibited otherwise.

07-Jan-19
Well yesterday, I think my mind was changed.... I talked to a forester, who was transferred to the Ottawa, from CO...... I said, what do you think? he was marking trees..... He said, I would not worry about it, for what your going to use it for, no one is going to bother you....... He came here because he wanted to fish the Great Lakes and he was from Marquette.....

He said, this isn't "Boulder", I would not worry about being bothered.....

From: MyrlePeete
12-Mar-20

MyrlePeete's Link
sure they are. I'm wondering, why people are asking other people about it but not googling the State laws? Or sites with the state laws list, like one that I've attached?

From: Huntcell
12-Mar-20
Perhaps Because we understand and trust our BOWSITE buddies rather than some outdated gobble de gook gooberment website.

From: fubar racin
12-Mar-20
I’m wondering why you needed to answer a question that was answered already a year ago

12-Mar-20
Well my information was wrong. I was told today, and the road may be gated with a road closed sign, but they do put out a sign during hunting season, on a lot of areas in the USF, that rec mechs can be used, for removal of game etc, and it includes E Bikes. The reasoning is, these areas, do not get a lot of pressure, during the deer seasons, most guys and gals are older, and it lets them participate, where they once can not walk to much anymore, so they can use the logging roads.................. pretty cool, but that was for the UP

From: Jaquomo
12-Mar-20
Class 1 and 2 are now legal on BLM, in National Parks, and Wildlife Refuges, wherever conventional bikes are permitted.

From: WapitiBob
12-Mar-20
"I'm wondering, why people are asking other people about it but not googling the State laws? Or sites with the state laws list, like one that I've attached?

Because State laws have no effect on National Forest or BLM lands.

From: Huntcell
12-Mar-20
State of Wisconsin recently passed Legislation stating that e-bikes will be considered as Bicycles and not as motor vehicles or motorcycles. Your good to go on any bike trails unless that particular trail is specifically posted not for bicycles (ebikes). Individual Trail managers have the discretion to allow bicycles but not ebikes and have to make such a distinction. and E-bikes can traverse any public motor vehicle roadway except the Interstate system, without having to have the ebike licensed. As is with bicycles.

Ride hard! Ride Free as the wind!

as long as the battery last....... *,*

From: Scrappy
12-Mar-20

Scrappy's embedded Photo
Scrappy's embedded Photo
I'm getting one of these if ya are gonna keep pushing these electric motor bikes.

From: splitlimb13
12-Mar-20

splitlimb13's embedded Photo
The ultimate ATV fellas
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
The ultimate ATV fellas

From: Chasewild
12-Mar-20
So how do you guys mount the dildo on your e-bike? Asking for a friend.

From: splitlimb13
12-Mar-20
^^^^ :-) ha ha ha

From: Jaquomo
12-Mar-20
Same place you mount yours in your 4WD truck. Where do you mount your tampon dispenser on your compound bow?

12-Mar-20
nothing beats a horse in the west,,,, just classy

From: Jaquomo
12-Mar-20
Horses are the lazy man's vehicle. Require no physical effort, tear the hell out of trails and leave stink-piles in their wake, haul fat-asses deep into wilderness. I love it whenever horse guys dis e-assist bikes that take actual physical effort and ability to ride on rough trails.

And yeah I know what I know. Was in the big-time horse business for many years, owned and operated 26 at one time, owned a 70 horse stable, packed them into wilderness all over for hunting and recreational trips. An e-assist bike requires 10x more effort and ability, maybe more, than riding a horse into a mountain hunting area.

From: splitlimb13
12-Mar-20

splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
Here you go Jaquomo. Prob fit you good.

12-Mar-20
I guess its just me,,,, I like horses, I like the smell of leather, I like everything about them, but I am a romantic,,, ha ha................. E bikes, well they probably smell like gear lube, ha ha,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

From: Jaquomo
13-Mar-20

Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Right back at you, princess

From: Mule Power
13-Mar-20
Lou I’m sure that you are well aware that unless you are a paying client of an outfitter horses are a ton of work. Way more than pedaling.

From: Chasewild
13-Mar-20
"well they probably smell like gear lube, ha ha,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"

Yup, strawberry scented "gear" lube.

13-Mar-20
Lots of fun, on this thread

From: wkochevar
13-Mar-20
How are the tires on those beefy ebikes in terms of handling goatheads, etc.?? I have some private ground out east that I tried a regular ebike last fall to get in and out of my treestand area and blew out both tires in the goat heads first trip in....sucked walking all that shit back out... Thx, Kip

From: Jaquomo
13-Mar-20
MP, yes, horses are a ton of work and expense to maintain. That's not the question. It's about effort required to get from point A to point B on a hunt, and the relative comparison (never mind the resource impact).

William, I haven't had any issues with goatheads since installing tire liners and Tuff Goo in the tubes. But I may go tubeless this summer.

From: Grey Ghost
13-Mar-20
I have both horses and an e-bike. I can saddle up my horse and ride the 2-track to the top of my property without breaking a sweat, or even getting my heart rate up. Not so much on an e-bike. Plus you don't have to feed, clean up crap, or fix stuff that e-bikes break.

The "romantic" aspect of hay-burners for hunting wore off quickly for me. I can't wait to use my e-bike this season.

Matt

From: splitlimb13
13-Mar-20

splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
Ghost, if you're gonna feed a horse all year ONLY to use them a couple weeks a year the label " hay burner" can be used I guess. If they're a part of your every day Life it's just a perk to have them for hunts. A horse will simply take you many other places a bike or ATV can not. I don't understand why a guy would use an E-assist if they're limited to the same roads/trails that a truck or ATV can access as well. Your peddling your electric mo-ped and a guy blows by you in a truck/ATV .. what's the point ?

Other than you like your bike and enjoy riding it. Doesn't matter to me what a guy like to use in the woods,E-assist horses as long as you're enjoying what your doing. I will say I do my best to steer clear of all roads here , nothing gets under my skin like a line of ATVs on a perfectly good morning. For some of us horses are a way of life. Not just a mouth to feed all year.

From: Jaquomo
13-Mar-20
Splitlimb, here in N. CO there are quite a few ATV trails that are either blocked by beetle kill deadfall or so eroded out that even ATVs can't travel them. But we can ride the edge of the eroded parts, ride around deadfall, or just lift our bikes over and keep on going.

Agree that I don't care what somebody does as long as they enjoy it. If you enjoy spending money on horses, hay, and vet bills, by all means, carry on. I know - I was in it as a business. But when guys with no clue come on an honest thread and start accusing others, who enjoy something they do not, of using dildoes, etc.., then it crosses a line.

I like horses, as long as someone else pays the bills.

From: Shuteye
13-Mar-20
My last horse was a quarter horse and he could go anyplace. He would swim across streams where my gator couldn't go. I had a friend that used a mule to coon hunt and that thing was amazing. I haven't had a horse in many years and the gator is much easier to care for. I only have to feed it when I am using it and it sits quietly waiting for the next run. I can even use it on public land to retrieve deer. If I lived out there where you guys have huge areas I would probably have a horse or mule.

From: Scrappy
13-Mar-20
splitlimb13 the problem is not the bicycles with motors just going on the same trails as ATV and 4x4s. It's the whole crowd of folks saying that their bike with a motor is nonmotorized and pushing to make it legal to use them on nonmotorized trails.

Its just like a dude with male plumbing saying he is not a male just so he can use a female bathroom doesn't change the fact that he is still a male. I have a motor but I identify as nonmotorized. Blows my mind on these threads how folks try to say their motor is not a motor.

From: Jaquomo
13-Mar-20
Scrappy, I don't necessarily disagree with you. But if you don't like it, what you need to do is join the effort by the IMBA to change the laws, not go after those of us who are pedaling bicycles that state and federal laws have declared as "not motorized", or otherwise permitted wherever conventional bikes are allowed. (This is similar to the old trad argument that a compound bow is not a "bow" because the gears and cams make it easier to draw and hold). What the bike people are learning is that more people pedaling is not a bad thing.

Now that the Department of the Interior has ruled them legal on bicycle trails on BLM and National Parks, it's only a matter of time before USFS follows, especially after the pilot programs are showing this is much ado about nothing.

From: splitlimb13
13-Mar-20
Okay, I see your point Scrappy. I guess in most the general national forests here there aren't many " designated bike trails" . Not that it matters much here. I take a pack string into the wilderness that the forests border to and the idiots here have ATV trails going in. I've called multiple times and have never had anyone call me with intentions of stopping it.

From: Pig Doc
13-Mar-20
Just more of the "my way is right, your way is wrong" bull crap. I have a Jeep, horses, ATV's, dirt bikes and now an eBike. I see uses for all of them. Gets old being told what to do by others, especially by frauds that can't even register properly.

From: Scrappy
13-Mar-20
Follow the money, the only reason ebikes are being allowed is the industry lobbyists are getting through to the legislators.

From: Jaquomo
13-Mar-20
^^^ yep. And the same with compound bows...

From: Scrappy
13-Mar-20
Sorry Jaq but that's a real lame comparison.

From: splitlimb13
13-Mar-20
"Just more of the "my way is right, your way is wrong" bull crap. I have a Jeep, horses, ATV's, dirt bikes and now an eBike. I see uses for all of them. Gets old being told what to do by others, especially by frauds that can't even register properly."

WTF are you even talking about? Can you not read? Or just plain ignorant? I don't see anyone here doing that. I'm pretty sure Lou and I JUST said whatever a person likes is up to that person! Whatever floats your boat! You got a mess of stuff as do I! Or you just looking to play the " Look at all the stuff I got" game?

From: Jaquomo
13-Mar-20
Ok, why are compound bows allowed?

"Engine: a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion." Precisely the defintion of a compound bow.

From: Pig Doc
13-Mar-20
When you register properly you might have some credibility. Until then you're just a troll.

From: Grey Ghost
13-Mar-20
Yep, trolls are meaningless.

BTW, 70 miles on my e-bike in the last 2 months has done wonders for my waistline. Can’t wait to step up the pace this summer.

Matt

From: swede
14-Mar-20
I do not know about this issue of "motorized" and non-motorized. Should a sail boat, with a kicker engine to get you back in if the wind is calm, not be still considered a sail boat? I would assume that the classification on a class 1 or class 2 e-bike is "non-motorized" because the motor is an assist and not the main source of power. You can be pretty sure a bike is "motorized" if it moves with a rider on it, and there are no peddles. Just my thought.

From: easeup
14-Mar-20
I really like my horses for all kinds of activities. they are wonderful creatures that man has been allowed to use for his benefit. They also get used to benefit those who have not been blessed with very good strength and health through no fault of their own.

From: eBike John
14-Mar-20

eBike John's Link
Here attached is the Secretarial Order word for word. NF not yet aligned with the rest of federal land covered by the order from August last year but I think it's only a matter of time.

From: Outdoordan
14-Mar-20
Good information EBike John. I like horses, and I like e-bikes. I'd probably own horses if I didn't live in the darn city. Grew up riding them.

From: Tonybear61
14-Mar-20
Allowing horses into the forests I used to hunt in WI ended it for me over there. They moved the rustic campground away from the creek due to the mess. Plus they winny all night. Not to mention the erosion and crap they leave in the woods along the creek trails in the pine barrens. No fun cleaning horse crap off of you hunting shoes, boots or and hand cart. Pedal bike would be full of it two.

As far as motorized bikes would have to check the local regs. Powered or motorized doesn't always mean its a vehicle. A while back I remember a case when roller blades were defined as a vehicle , whereas skateboards were not. Neither were motorized.

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